PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

[Wise Donkey]

Ok, I have been in a total of 2 parties since I came back to FFXI, and both of them had a PL. Personally, I don't like having a PL. I enjoy playing the game the way I believe it was meant to be played. I voiced that opinion in these parties and I got the {/point} {/laugh} "Are you serious?". At what point can one resonably make a stand and expect to be able to party without a PL? I can grin and bear with PLs through the Dunes, as I know everyone is trying to get through that place as fast as possible, but how long are they a staple to parties? Qufim? Kazham? Have they gone past that point now? Is it really believed to be necessary past level 25?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[Skyetaru]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

My rule of thumb is: if the party requires a pl to survive then there's something wrong

Of course, I don't think it's possible to escape Valkurm without getting at least one pled party...

Having recently leveled Brd and Rdm through those levels, the dunes were pl infested but after that it wasn't as bad (I think I only had two pled parties in the jungles and qufim combined).

[Illuen]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

After Qufim, I leave if a party has a PLer. In the dunes, it is one of those evils you just have to deal with, and in certain situations, it can be useful in qufim, although the only PLs I had in Qufim was when we'd go into the tower and tear through mobs.

I had a party the other day, that had a 75 WHM PLer in Wajoam.



A PLer for a party of 57-58s.



It was at that point that I began cry.... I hope to stop soon.

[Kholdstare]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

For me, it depends on the job I'm playing. If I'm a job that doesn't get a lot of invites (i.e. a DD.) I won't complain about a PL in Qufim or Kazham.

For me, 30 is where the line is drawn as a job that isn't particularly in demand. If I was a more in-demand job (particularly a tank or healer) I'd tell the party to enjoy their PL tank while I go find a party where I'm useful. I'm not exactly a huge fan of not getting necessary skillups because some high level mage is both tanking and healing.

PL'd parties now = gimped skills later.

[Wise Donkey]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

Ok, sounds like I should be able to make a stand at Qufim. Thanks for the input!

[elyssa]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

Actually I like being a healer in a party with a PLer...

I just go AFK and get free exp.

[Jei]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

MY view of PL changed a lot during the course of 2 years since they started to exist. I went from totally anti PLing to I-dun-care now -.-

Levelling 10-40 is not fun anymore.... It's not like back in the days when level 11 parties in the dunes were all experienced players and you can get to 20 in a day. Believe me, that was common dune PT back before NA released. Today, experience players stay at end game activities, they don't come levelling up anymore. It's hard enough to get a balance party set up, and you can pretty much expect your party members to not be so skilled and kill hella slow. If there are PL, take the ride. Get done with levelling so you can do something else with your time. That's what I think now.

[LyonheartLakshmi]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

If you want to "take a stand" against PLs, simply decline the invite, or disband from the pt. There's really no sense in getting on a soap box and trying to convert the other pt members into PL resisting citizens. And when you give your reason for leaving the pt, try not to sound too better-than-you about it. Something along the lines of "I don't enjoy parties with PLs, and I play this game for fun" should suffice.

[Vyuru]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

Well, I have conflicting views on this.

Not all PL are bad, IMO a PL is someone outside the party who helps heal and helps keep the party going either while the main healer is resting, or just tosses out some buffs and cures to help the main healer out.

Other people view a PL as someone who completely takes over all healing aspects and keeps the party alive.

Now sometimes I'll go and grab either my lvl 44 rdm, or I'll go as my lvl 67 drg/rdm and hangout with a friend who is in a party, no matter what level they are. I'll handle links (if I can) toss out some heals, chat with my friend who is in the party, which can be fun if it's Kaerii since she plays healing/support jobs like whm, rdm, and bard and is normally rather busy And I'll do just fun stuff like that, why? Simply because I enjoy my friend's company and I want to hang out with them, and sending /tells from several zones away is not the same thing.

I would consider what I'm doing to be PLing in a way, albiet a very weak way, and it's not something I'd leave a party for. I know a couple of married couples who play this game. One of them were two tarus, he was a lvl 50ish pld and his wife was a lvl 75 whm. She always PL'd any party he was in, even in the 60s (I ran into them again) Not only that, but she did it well and was more of an outside support healer, and the only time she main healed was while our whm was resting for mp, I wouldn't leave the party over something like that.

However you get into these other PL parties that actually rely on the PL to keep them alive, the party can't even function without them, and those are the PL parties that I would leave. They are also the ones that typically over hunt, lvl 12 party fighting pugils anyone?

Levelling 10-40 is not fun anymore.... It's not like back in the days when level 11 parties in the dunes were all experienced players and you can get to 20 in a day. Believe me, that was common dune PT back before NA released.

Actually, NA here who's been playing since the NA PC release, and I've experianced it plenty. It really depends on the people though. I mean, heck, even when I was a newb I saw the value of skillchains, magic bursts, starting exp chains with the weaker mobs and chaining up to a nice fat juicy IT mob on chain #5, or a bunch of faster high VT-low IT chains instead of fighting the IT+++++ mobs.

Of course I will say that these young puppies these days don't know squat. Korroloka tunnel, King Ranperre's tomb and the Shrakami Maze are all empty these days.... Rather sad really, I miss being able to get a party in Buburimu, or any of the other oddball places that are just so much better than the dunes.

Also, I wanted to say that I wouldn't classify all north americans that way, and to be honest it upsets me a little because I joined this game because I wanted it for the social aspect of meeting people from different countries and different walks of life and having fun with them, learn new things, all that stuff. So seeing something like that is mildly distressing to me. I miss the times when I used to get some funny face followed by "Konban wa! (Party?) ii desu yo

; ;

[Wise Donkey]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

If you want to "take a stand" against PLs, simply decline the invite, or disband from the pt. There's really no sense in getting on a soap box and trying to convert the other pt members into PL resisting citizens. And when you give your reason for leaving the pt, try not to sound too better-than-you about it. Something along the lines of "I don't enjoy parties with PLs, and I play this game for fun" should suffice.

Oh, I am certainly not trying to convert the masses here. I just want to enjoy my game.

Vyuru - I have no problem with someone handling links and limiting down time. Like you said, it becomes an issue when the PL is the Tank/Main Healer.

Thanks everyone for you comments.

[Samuzuki]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

Lvling whm to 37 for sub was most unejoyable for me thanks to PL's i can only rember 1 non PL pt the whole way, my skills ended as capped enffebling nad divine and healing magic a good 40 lvl's under cap.

[Icemage]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

I'm with Jei. I used to be very much anti-PL. But the learning curve has caught up with the playerbase - the good players are mostly done levelling except occasionally when they level new jobs, while the people who aren't as skilled have stayed behind, which means the whole level range from 1-30 is now heavily littered with mediocre or worse players.

I've also realized that good players will learn the ropes on their own once they get put under pressure, and bad players often won't, so all the PL does is postpone the inevitable day of reckoning for bad players. If you're a good player, it shouldn't affect you at all. So take the PL and move on and find something more interesting to do once you get where you need to be level-wise.


Icemage

[Jei]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

https://secure.playonline.com/polapp...6polg_loc%3Den

Sounds weird to me...
Q: Is power leveling (PL) against the rules?
A: We do not prohibit 3rd party players assisting other players. However, if such assists result in interfering with other players' capability of playing the game, GMs may take action

[Necropolis]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

I too flip floped on this issue, for a while I was like wow i don't have to cure or doo anything, then when I learned that I need to skill magic I was against it. I ended up saying ok! Qufim is the limit, from that point on, i don't leave a party if being PLed, but I will turn /blockaid on and voke of the PLer everytime, or try to cure before they can.

However, I find that in my LS its not that good players don't level low jobs anymore, they static or PL themselves through the lower levels, avoiding the idiotic masses completly. I don't think thier skill is sacrificed, as they all have a very firm grasp on the game, and don't let themselves miss out on any skill that might be lacking. I've recently started doing this my self with lower jobs, a friend of mine is a 75rdm/whm/brd, I just log her in and PL myself away till I get a party invite, or if I need to skill a weapong people don't like you using in a party (Gaxe/Gsword).

When I do join a party I'll only PL incase of emergencies/links, or raise incase of a wipe. (I find I can only do this if on a melee job, trying to control two mage jobs at one time will just result in more wipes >.>)

But in short, when I get a party in Garliage Citidel, Quicksand Caves, Wajom Woodlands et cetera I expect no PL. (though one did have two characters and dragged him along for a raise3 in the event that we died, but in no way PLed the party). But I don't leave if there is, I give it a shot, level an underleveled skill, and leave when things get ugly, keeping /blockaid on at all times. Though if I join a pt with a PLer and no healer job at all, I do leave.

[tdh]

Re: PL: When to say {No thanks.}?

I've actually been in a Lv.40 party with a PL, and was disgusted by it, but I wanted to get that job to Lv.40 so I could retire it. I just shut up, rode it out, got my level and sold away all the crap.

For NIN, I'd welcome a PL only because it's impossible to main tank as NIN, and so many people don't quite understand that, but other than that past the Dunes I leave a PL party.

I've even had PL "groups" get an attitude with me if I was cutting into their EXP. I was soloing RNG last night in Qufim, and was doing quite well, until links and other groups starting slowing me down or killing me. At one point I got into a groove when a SAM and a RNG w/ a WHM75 in tow decided to /slap, /angry, and call me an asshole for killing "their worms." Another bad link, 3 different Stonegas, and I was dead. I was trying to see if a LS member would come save me from the HP, when he comes by and says "haha dead bastard thats what you get." Then later came back and said, "you better hp because your sure as hell not getting a raise."

Maybe I'm the weirdo, but when I'm wandering around and I see somebody who needs help, I pitch in. Damn near dead and I'm a RDM75? Cure IV, Pro/Shell, and make sure they survive the fight, or Raise them afterwards. I was heading back to Jeuno from Qufim and a Weapon was in the way. Somebody was heading to their party and asked if I could help them out. I gave them 2 Silent Oils for free and went on. Somebody's fighting a NM and run into a rough patch, I won't let them wipe just so I have a chance at drop, I'll throw them a Cure. I guess I'm the only one who does that, kinda sad though...